Canon Revisions

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Berserk Penguin
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RE: Canon Revisions: Ashram

Post by Berserk Penguin »

It wasn't mentioned whether Ashram's father died first or his mother had an affair first, but there was something that I missed last time. Ashram's father was assassinated by members of the thief's guild within the first year of his arrival to Marmo. It wasn't mentioned anywhere why his father became the target of assassins, but Ashram did take a revenge on the thiefs guild (with the help of Owen), and I think you know the rest about Owen betraying Ashram in the end.

Also, it was Owen's mother who died from illness and Owen's father who was hunted down by dark elves.

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Re: Canon Revisions: Deedlit

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I can't say that I'm 100% certain, but I think their names weren't mentioned. I checked a few chapters but no names were given in those.

What do you need for the Demon of Flames? Um... some details which may have differed from the manga would be that Parn didn't save Deedlit with a magical sword. Deedlit always carried a small bag of water with the lesser water spirit in it (so that she could cast water magic in places where water couldn't be found), when Salamander refused to listen to her command she reliesed the water spirit to threaten Salamander. Later when she realised that salamander was possessed by Effree (I forgot the right spelling) she casted a water barrier spell. Parn also jumped in between Deedlit and the fire spell that Effree casted but it was the water barrier that protected Parn (and Deedlit).

Another thing would be that Parn got his set of enchanted equipments (really powerful sword, armour, shield) from the Tower of Sands, it's the tower which Deedlit made a new oath with the Greater wind spirit.

Oh, and the greater wind spirit was called Jin but to establish a new oath and make it follow a new command Deedlit had to give him a new name (as well as passing a test) which would be something like "Yiluka". The test basically involved showing the greater wind spirit that Deedlit could maintain her existence in the Spiritual World (there are 3 basic worlds, Spiritual World where spirits/elements reside, Elf World where elves originally lived, and Material World which is Forcenia). If she failed, she would become one of the lesser wind spirits and lose her consciousness/self-awareness forever. In the end Deedlit was able to maintain her sense of existence by thinking about Parn. It was said that only things that "exists" can feel, so being able to have a strong feeling about someone reminded Deedlit about her existence (sounds pretty abstract). Also Deedlit realised the best way to pass the test was to not stuggle and relax. Shaman magic differs from Holy/Sourcery magic in the sense that pwoer comes from understanding of spirits, and relaxing is what wind spirits do (for holy magic it's faith, and for sourcery magic it's the understanding of mana which is kind of identical to atoms in our world, and to understand how mana works, high level of intelligence is required, that's why mages are often smart)

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RE: Canon Revisions: Ashram

Post by The Black Knight »

Ugh...it looks like my translation twisted things around. It said that Owen was deported because his step-father turned him into the Alanian authorities as a thief, to save his own hide. I thought Owen went to Marmo alone.

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Re: Canon Revisions: Deedlit

Post by Z »

I'd rather follow the manga storyline, since it's what people would be more familiar with. Apparently a lot of things are very different from the anime and manga.

The name given in the anime for Djinn was Aruku.
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RE: Canon Revisions: Ashram

Post by Berserk Penguin »

No that bit was right, Owen was betrayed by his adopted-father (who also happened to be his master).

Owen was brought up and trained as an assassin for the thief's guild (NOT in Marmo). Usually, assassins are brought up with a girl of the same age, they'll probably develop love/friendship or whatever but in the end the assassin would be forced to kill the girl, after that the assassin would presumably lose his emotions/empathy. This is usually the most difficult test that assassins have to pass, but Owen passed it without any difficulty. That made his adopted-father afraid of him, and decided to get rid of Owen.

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RE: Canon Revisions: Ashram

Post by Berserk Penguin »

By the way I also realise the inconsistency... adopted father AND birth parents? I'll check up on that again.

Edit: I checked again. I didn't remember incorrectly. He did have an adopted-father AND birth parents. I don't think it's a translation error cause it's pretty detailed. The only reasonable explanation I could think of would be that Owen was given to a thief to be an apprentice and adopted son (kind of like Cecil?). When owen was betrayed and sent to Marmo his birth parents went with him... (that would be different from Cecil who haven't seen his parents). But this still doesn't make too much sense, especially if Owen was trained as an assassin I don't think his master would want him to maintain close bonds/contact with his birth parents...

By the way when I checked this up I found that 5 generations ago Ashram's family had a member who was married to the royal family. Nothing really important though~

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Re: Canon Revisions: Deedlit

Post by Berserk Penguin »

Z wrote:I'd rather follow the manga storyline, since it's what people would be more familiar with. Apparently a lot of things are very different from the anime and manga.

The name given in the anime for Djinn was Aruku.
I didn't think that these info would affect your RP, just thought that you and other Lodoss fans may want to know the original/alternative story line.

By the way, is Deedlit your favourate character?

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Canon Update: Estas

Post by Estas the High Elf »

Is his age ever mentioned? I only guessed that he was somewhere above, yet close to, 1000 years older than Deedlit, assuming that he's the next youngest.
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Canon Update: Etoh

Post by Holy King Etoh »

I think I have everything important. The page has it noted that we never heard mention of Etoh and Fianna marrying, but we've already found that was indeed true. Is there anything important that I should add regarding when and how they were married? You mentioned there was opposition to Fianna becoming queen because they don't allow blood heirs to rule Valis.

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Re: Canon Revisions: Deedlit

Post by Z »

Berserk Penguin wrote:I didn't think that these info would affect your RP, just thought that you and other Lodoss fans may want to know the original/alternative story line.

By the way, is Deedlit your favourate character?

No, Ashram and Pirotess are my faves. :3
Also: Adriel, Aiden Silvermoon II, Ailil, Anisa Amri, Barbarian Barbie, Bella, Centauress Cissiria, Ciprian Tremas, High Elf Seri, Granite Stoneheart, Katela el'Baran, Kiran, Kitsa Stormeyes, Lady Kavryn, Meridian, Mia, Midwife Lien, Mudan Jasil, Myrela, Naclia, Natasi, Olula, Permanent Tears, Pirate Kreoss, Priestess Elohssa, Priestess Jenesis, Priestess Lianora, Priestess N'shara, Priestess Sairina, Priestess Sura, Priestess Thalia, Princess Elianna, Sevrina, Silvia, Vampiress Ileta, Vanaia, Werewolf Xanin, Y'ezela, Zaole, and Zira.

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Re: Canon Update: Estas

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Estas the High Elf wrote:Is his age ever mentioned? I only guessed that he was somewhere above, yet close to, 1000 years older than Deedlit, assuming that he's the next youngest.
I've been searching/scanning here and there in the Elves Side Story Novel, it was mentioned in various places that he's the second youngest, in one of the chapters it was said that he is at least twice as old as Deedlit, but I think the most useful info (which you probably know already) would be that Deedlit is the only new born high elf in the recent 1000 years, which makes your guess real close. Sorry that this isn't much help, as I don't want to say for sure that it was never mentioned unless I can verify that by reading the whole series again.

Some other stuff about high elves that you might find interesting. Firstly they never have quarrels because they tend to solve problems by easing the tension with the passage of time. Although they have infinate time, it doesn't seem like an efficient tactic as the problem remains unsolved. Secondly, elves are concerned with the group rather than the individual, because they inherited the characteristics of forests (forests = group, tree = individual). Thirdly, Deedlit and Estas are probably the only two high elves in the clan that still remembers how to use metal weapons.

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Re: Canon Update: Etoh

Post by Berserk Penguin »

Yup, there were oppositions because Fianna is the decendent of a previous king, and because Etoh is not a Holy Knight. Usually there is a division of power, in which Holy Knights rule the court (and from them a king is chosen) but has to cooperate with the clerics/church, Etoh was probably the first exception to this rule, which makes it logical for Holy Knights (especially the ones who were candidates for being the next king) to oppose. Furthermore, Etoh was born in Alania, and making an Alania the king of Valis just doesn't seem right. And lastly, he was probably too young and didn't have any high positions in the Church.

One thing that probably made Etoh standout is that he was able to use holy magic at such young age, which is evident that he has strong faith in Falis. In the novels, magical users are extremely rare (in the comics of Chronics of Heroic Knight all the cleric warriors can use holy magic as well as fight, but in the novel it was said explicitly that a lot of the cleric warriors can't use magic), and this was even more so for Valis priests. I think you know about this already, it was said that Valis priests were too concerned about rituals, rules, order (including hierarchy of power) etc. which made a lot of them forgot the most important thing is faith (and faith determines the power derived from holy magic), not to mention that a lot of them were even corrupt...

Just some UNVERIFIED GUESSES from Haniwa (official chinese translator for Lodoss), Etoh's parents were probably priests of Falis. He had a couple of points to support this claim/guess but the only one that I could remember was that Alania was full of Marfa priests and it's extremely rare for someone born and raised in a village near the Marfa temple to be a Falis believer, partly because those villagers would have little if any opportunity to know anything about Falis (Falis priests don't seem to preach there?). So it's logical to say that Etoh probably got his religion from his parents.

P.S. If Etoh's parents were in fact Falis believers, it's possible that this is a reason why Etoh and Parn became close friends as a child? (Parn's parents were from Valis, making them likely to be Falis believers too) But this is just another wild guess :D

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Re: Canon Update: Etoh

Post by Berserk Penguin »

By the way, I forgot whether this was the same in comics and anime, but it was mentioned over a dozen time in the novels that priests in Lodoss actually charge a HUGE amount of offering (i.e. money) for healing people.

The author justified this seemingly illogical phenomenon by saying that only a small number of priests can actually use holy magic, and even those priests can only cast healing magic a few times per day. If they heal for free, people will line up every day for this service and end up just wasting their own time because the supply could never meet the demand anyway. To solve the problem, the church needs to find a way to limite the number of people asking for help, and the way chosen was to ask for a large amount of offering. This was considered the most appropriate method because churches need money to support its clerics and provide services to those in need, and only relying on the offerings made by faithful villagers (who were mostly poor) wouldn't be enough. So it seems that the method solves 2 problems at once. Note that a lot of Marfa priests are heralists, and they often heal those in need with herbs rather than magic (probably using the offerings earned from healing to buy herbs??).

P.S. Just to provide an example, you know the hunter that Deedlit met before leaving her clan, his father was trapped in the curse of the forest of never return because he was chasing a rare creature. Well his father planed to sold the creature for money so that he could afford to heal his wife with holy magic.

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RE: Canon Revisions: Beld

Post by Z »

Quote: “As long as you live, fight! Don't be defeated a second time. Keep winning, and you'll get what you desire.”
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Re: Canon Revisions: Deedlit

Post by Berserk Penguin »

When I was trying to find Estas's age I found a sentence which said Deedlit has been learning to communicate with spirits as well as many other races since she was young, and one of the races mentioned was "wing-men". So it seems like this is another race in Forcenia, probably like lizardmans, they don't inhibit in Lodoss, that's probably why this is the only time where they were ever mentioned.

P.S. I think these aren't the same as the wing-men in Crystiania, coz Crystiania is totally isolated from the outer world

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